I was searching for 3.0l NA1 OBD1 builds and haven't come up with much other than people saying its not worth it and I already figured that. I was most interested in people running standalone and cams on there NA(3.0 or 3.2) and what numbers it has made. Does any one have more info on there custom cams,ct,SOS, or toda cams for NA with the apropriete valve train upgrades(springs, retainers, cam gears, valves?). I know this won't be as much HP per $ as FI but thats not the point. I have bought a lot of recent parts lately the most relevent are AEM EMS,Dual channell UEGO controller,FPR,RC 500cc injectors,HKS fuel pump,DC headers, RM exhaust,and some others as well(need test pipe or Hiflows cats and intake) I was going to go turbo but Im building this car to compete with my friends AP2 S2000 and we both decided to keep it NA. should I use the the EMS to tune with I/H/E or get cams, ITBS are a bit steep for what you get but cams seems a little bit cheaper. I might looking into head work aswell or even HI comp pistons. Is it worth the amount to tune a EMS for I/H/E will it make more than a couple HP with a basic setup or should i save it for the future? Most of my other money is going into the suspension undecied on what we still have to work out the rules on that(2-way limit or 3-way). I purchased Stoptech front brakes and haven't decided what I'm doing on the rear. it looks like I will be getting ADVAN RS or maybe ENKEI RPF1 w/spacers for wheels.any help would be apreachiated I under stand its all up to money and opinions I'm trying to weight the options. I have until NOV 2010 for the competion(up in the air on what that is exactly) at the soonest. This may sound silly but this is how we are trying to out ball each other also driving scholl will proably be in order.
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NA builds
- Thread starter HONDA_RJJ
- Start date
I am also going to go the NA route with my 3.0L and have been searching quite diligently over the past few months to find out more about what people have done. One person you probably want to talk to is member "greenberet", who has really done a nice job on his car, while keeping it from being too extreme. Here are some of my discoveries with regard to NA power.
1. It is much more expensive in $/hp compared to FI. Ok, we know this. Let's move on.
2. The stock intake system (tube, airbox, throttle body and manifold) can deliver enough CFM for lightly modified NA engines. So, you can delete "I" from the typical "I/H/E" power equation. A 3.0L with H/E will put out between 255 and 265whp, depending on brands and original engine power.
3. A chip with H/E will net you anywhere from zero to 5 extra whp. I know the Prospeed chips have a fairly proven record of adding power at this stage. So, with a chip, you are now close to 270whp.
4. Cams and headwork are the next big step after chip/H/E. Data on this is less available on Prime, since many tend to go FI for this level of money, but I've seen folks posting anywhere from 280 to 300whp with hot cams and headwork.
5. Once you add cams, a custom tuned chip or AEM makes more sense. I tend to lean toward a chip at this stage for several reasons. First, Honda spent millions of R&D dollars developing the engine code in the NSX ECU. It is optimized for the specific engine application and contains many safe modes along with the TCS and cruise control code. By adding cams, you're really just introducing more air into the engine, so you need to add more fuel. The nice thing about NA is that manifold pressure is still atmospheric, so the OEM computer tables and algorithms still fit. All you need to do is tune a chip to deliver more fuel to match the extra air and you can have a nice OEM-like system with the extra power. An AEM aftermarket system can be tuned also, but you lose TCS, cruise, all of the diagnostic and safe modes, plus you might have starting and rough idle issues. In truth however, the AEM probably will make more power.
6. If you have cams and bigger valves, the engine is breathing more air and here is where the stock intake begins to show its limits. At this stage, an enlarged throttle body and ported intake manifold may begin to yield gains, though I haven't seen any dynos to prove it.
7. The ultimate NA power adder is a stroker kit. A stroker kit is very expensive, about $7000 for the parts and then you have to tear down the engine to install. But, you get big power and torque. Power at this stage, depending on displacement can be as much as a supercharger -- north of 330whp.
At the end of the day, speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
1. It is much more expensive in $/hp compared to FI. Ok, we know this. Let's move on.
2. The stock intake system (tube, airbox, throttle body and manifold) can deliver enough CFM for lightly modified NA engines. So, you can delete "I" from the typical "I/H/E" power equation. A 3.0L with H/E will put out between 255 and 265whp, depending on brands and original engine power.
3. A chip with H/E will net you anywhere from zero to 5 extra whp. I know the Prospeed chips have a fairly proven record of adding power at this stage. So, with a chip, you are now close to 270whp.
4. Cams and headwork are the next big step after chip/H/E. Data on this is less available on Prime, since many tend to go FI for this level of money, but I've seen folks posting anywhere from 280 to 300whp with hot cams and headwork.
5. Once you add cams, a custom tuned chip or AEM makes more sense. I tend to lean toward a chip at this stage for several reasons. First, Honda spent millions of R&D dollars developing the engine code in the NSX ECU. It is optimized for the specific engine application and contains many safe modes along with the TCS and cruise control code. By adding cams, you're really just introducing more air into the engine, so you need to add more fuel. The nice thing about NA is that manifold pressure is still atmospheric, so the OEM computer tables and algorithms still fit. All you need to do is tune a chip to deliver more fuel to match the extra air and you can have a nice OEM-like system with the extra power. An AEM aftermarket system can be tuned also, but you lose TCS, cruise, all of the diagnostic and safe modes, plus you might have starting and rough idle issues. In truth however, the AEM probably will make more power.
6. If you have cams and bigger valves, the engine is breathing more air and here is where the stock intake begins to show its limits. At this stage, an enlarged throttle body and ported intake manifold may begin to yield gains, though I haven't seen any dynos to prove it.
7. The ultimate NA power adder is a stroker kit. A stroker kit is very expensive, about $7000 for the parts and then you have to tear down the engine to install. But, you get big power and torque. Power at this stage, depending on displacement can be as much as a supercharger -- north of 330whp.
At the end of the day, speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5011&highlight=powertech+kit caveat I had no premods baseline pull.
If it helps the car won't be daily driven, im not concerned with TCS or cruise.
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Suspension:
2-way adjustable - separate compression and rebound:
KW Variant 3
JRZ RS
3-way adjustable - Highspeed Compression, Lowspeed Compression, Rebound:
KW 3-way race dampers
JRZ/Moton 3-way race dampers
E-mail [email protected] for pricing on any of these.
2-way adjustable - separate compression and rebound:
KW Variant 3
JRZ RS
3-way adjustable - Highspeed Compression, Lowspeed Compression, Rebound:
KW 3-way race dampers
JRZ/Moton 3-way race dampers
E-mail [email protected] for pricing on any of these.
Hi,
I have gone thru the bolt-on and just a bit further.
NA1
my own custom (3.5" intake tubing) cold air intake
DC sport exhaust
Test pipes
cheap Top speed headers
SOS BBTB
Ported and polished intake manifold.
I dynoed after every mod and got good results.
Stock with DC sport made 239whp
After all the mods the car made 274whp with no tuning, no chip, and no fuel added. So if someone would get a custom tuned chip you would make a bit more power.
Hope this helps.
http://nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1133263#post1133263
Rahim
I have gone thru the bolt-on and just a bit further.
NA1
my own custom (3.5" intake tubing) cold air intake
DC sport exhaust
Test pipes
cheap Top speed headers
SOS BBTB
Ported and polished intake manifold.
I dynoed after every mod and got good results.
Stock with DC sport made 239whp
After all the mods the car made 274whp with no tuning, no chip, and no fuel added. So if someone would get a custom tuned chip you would make a bit more power.
Hope this helps.
http://nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1133263#post1133263
Rahim
just out of curiosity, how much power would a 3.0 make with cams
Uhmmm...refer to post #3 above....
That is impressive.
Have you had any problems with the valve adjustment and such?
Since the the last dyno have you upgraded the injectors of added anything to help with the fuel on top end?
Lol....that motor was so last year......Actualy to my dismay that engine frigged itself due to valve spring failure
I have had a stock 2000 motor in my car for the last 4 years:redface:
Actualy to my dismay that engine frigged itself due to valve spring failure
Were those Comptech valve springs that failed or stock valve springs?
When Comptech worked on my cylinder heads, they machined the spring seats a bit deeper so that the stock springs wouldn't bind when using high-lift camshafts. I've had Comptech camshafts and stock valve springs in there for 14 years now.
My build from a couple years ago.....
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84321
Right now it's sitting at 282rwhp. In the end I did end up sending ECU and dyno chart ( A few times ) to Brian at Pro Speed to custom tune the ECU and it did make a difference like 8whp. I believe he messed with the ignition and timing also and I did feel the extra hp. The car feels great now and I would guess it could run a high 12 in the 1/4 but have not been to the drag strip yet. IMO for what I have $$$ wise in the car and for what I got out of it in whp a few grand more you could get another 70-100 whp if you go the Love Fab or Comptech SC route. I believe Pony Boy has about 340 rwhp in his NA build and that must feel awesome !!
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84321
Right now it's sitting at 282rwhp. In the end I did end up sending ECU and dyno chart ( A few times ) to Brian at Pro Speed to custom tune the ECU and it did make a difference like 8whp. I believe he messed with the ignition and timing also and I did feel the extra hp. The car feels great now and I would guess it could run a high 12 in the 1/4 but have not been to the drag strip yet. IMO for what I have $$$ wise in the car and for what I got out of it in whp a few grand more you could get another 70-100 whp if you go the Love Fab or Comptech SC route. I believe Pony Boy has about 340 rwhp in his NA build and that must feel awesome !!
comptech springs.
Lol....that motor was so last year......Actualy to my dismay that engine frigged itself due to valve spring failure
OUCH! sorry to hear that.
I was looking for cams before but went with the BBSC N2000 kit and am very happy with it. The car made 400whp at 8.5psi with the AEM EMS. The car's power is all top end and it feels like an all motor car cause it's so smooth.
i just sent an email to SOS and waiting for Chris's reply.
So long story short, I have a chance to get an 3.0 engine sitting in my garage now, and will tear it down to make sure if everything works great. Since we are going to tear it down, I'm definately will do some work to it.
I just don't like the extra cost and headache I might counter with F/I. I looked at the SoS site with their cam and valves, a little too much to my taste and I did hear stories about the failing valves. (not saying with SOS) One of my buddy has a lot of engine builds experience but not with the nsx engine. He suggested me to just bump the compression ratio with piston without stroking the engine, Is that possible at all?
I just noticed SOS sells their custom piston in 89-95mm, say, if I just opted for 93 or 94mm without block sleeving, is that feasible at all??
I have been tracking for last 7 years I owned my nsx and had been ignored the benefit of added power until now. I just starting to be frustrated when you losing a drag race from a garden variety of 135i/997/or other flashy new cars between corners, not to mention those real "fast" cars. :biggrin:
I was actually hoping not to drop more than $4000, and be reliable as possible, is that feasible at all? or I'm just dreaming??
So long story short, I have a chance to get an 3.0 engine sitting in my garage now, and will tear it down to make sure if everything works great. Since we are going to tear it down, I'm definately will do some work to it.
I just don't like the extra cost and headache I might counter with F/I. I looked at the SoS site with their cam and valves, a little too much to my taste and I did hear stories about the failing valves. (not saying with SOS) One of my buddy has a lot of engine builds experience but not with the nsx engine. He suggested me to just bump the compression ratio with piston without stroking the engine, Is that possible at all?
I just noticed SOS sells their custom piston in 89-95mm, say, if I just opted for 93 or 94mm without block sleeving, is that feasible at all??
I have been tracking for last 7 years I owned my nsx and had been ignored the benefit of added power until now. I just starting to be frustrated when you losing a drag race from a garden variety of 135i/997/or other flashy new cars between corners, not to mention those real "fast" cars. :biggrin:
I was actually hoping not to drop more than $4000, and be reliable as possible, is that feasible at all? or I'm just dreaming??
Man, I remember this feeling. Get all kinds of distance b/t you and viper/corvette only to see that distance evaporate on the straights. One of the good things about a stroker build is that there's so much torque available that it really pulls you through corners. So much so that you have to learn to drive the car differently.
"What's this? I have to feather the throttle on corner exit?"
I wish I would of went Shawn's route on the build. I did all I could to the top leaving the bottom stock 3.0 alone. The car is much better on track than stock and I love the short gears feels 10 times better. Here is a vid from a few weeks ago following ex NSX owner instructor Jeff in his tweeked M3. I did finally get by him man he can drive that car. I was giving ex NSX owner Sean's wife a ride. Check out the Viper blow by me...I did all I could to hold him off a lap...No way ! Whatever you do your still going to want more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9OcbkHai9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9OcbkHai9A
nevermind
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I have always been torn between a full NA built with cams or simple add the Comptech SC.
In the end I never came around to it, but with my next upcoming NSX the same question would come alive again.
Does anyone know if cams on a NA2 NSX would make sense or would the fact that the car is OBDII negate any effects from the cams.
BTW, I have talked to several people (SoS, 3.0, Greenberet) and the consensus is that if you are doing the cams, you should also do the adjustable cam gears to get the most from the cams.
In the end I never came around to it, but with my next upcoming NSX the same question would come alive again.
Does anyone know if cams on a NA2 NSX would make sense or would the fact that the car is OBDII negate any effects from the cams.
BTW, I have talked to several people (SoS, 3.0, Greenberet) and the consensus is that if you are doing the cams, you should also do the adjustable cam gears to get the most from the cams.
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- 15 May 2004
- Messages
- 6,898
High compression pistons, cams, and 3.2L Darton Sleeves (93mm pistons), and a little valvetrain work should make a healthy amount of responsive and fun power. It is a very bad idea to bore out the stock 3.0L block to 93mm. Either leave the stock piston size or better yet, sleeve the motor to utilize the 93mm pistons. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions and be sure to check out our sleeve installation package in the vendors section.
Billy
Looks like you were having a lot of fun out there. Turn 1 on the first lap looked pretty good. Try carrying more entry speed and picking up the power at the apex in most of the corners on the track (like you did in T1 on the 1st lap), i'm sure you will pick up time. Also work up to staying full throttle until you apply the brakes. There can easily be a second or two gained by this transition. Happy motoring.
Billy
Your 100% right my friend. I know because I have a 3.8l monster as they used to call it.
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