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Pahrump, NV - BaschBoost Track Day

Joined
5 September 2000
Messages
212
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
First, best wishes to Greg Hardee on his birthday, and thanks to his circle of friends that treated us to a day at the Pahrump, NV racetrack.

The BaschBoost Supercharger (BBSC) is a winner. My thanks to Chris of Science of Speed for a half dozen laps in his vehicle. Chris' NSX pulls 1.01 G and he was able to use all of it in spirited (understatement) laps around the track.

His BBSC equipped NSX pulls like Godzilla. The vehicle accelerates at such a rate it snaps your helmet into the headrest. The G forces around the curves require a seat with better bolsters than stock -- he uses Recaro's. Also, a four point harness is a good idea and you'll need a smaller steering wheel.

We ran the course basically in third gear -- even through the chicanes and tight S's -- until the straights, when fourth was used. Speed was near 110 mph two-thirds along the major straight. After hard braking with a setup at the apex, smash the pedal and your neck snaps back again.

This was unquestionably, in my 30 years of foreign sports car ownership and an NSX owner of 11 years, the most impressive aftermarket power accessory, NOS not included, I have seen for the money. I am not a fan of turbos, so this prejudice must be taken into account in evaluating this statement.

The engineering looks sound, in the opinion of this PE (electrical). Unlike the CT Supercharger, the BBSC does not require any change to the alternator location. Induction plumbing can either use the stock intake or K&N. The workmanship and quality of parts, including fasteners, appeared top notch.

After studying the installation, my sole empirical concern was the BBSC drive belt. It wraps around a new pulley in an "S" arrangement so as to spin both the SC and the alternator. However, after countless shifts at redline, my fears were calmed.

As a comparison, I ran a number of laps in my stock NSX (94), and the best I could manage was 20 seconds off Chris' pace -- and I was "drifting" around the tight corners. This revealed to me that to take full advantage of the BBSC power, changes to suspension and tires are likely in order.

I noticed no "hiccups" that might indicate a fuel management or delivery problem. No detonation was heard, although it was a "cool" day, about 70-75. The temp gauge indicated standard, engine operating temperature throughout the run. I will be looking forward to see what happens to emissions with the BBSC.

All in all, it was a unique experience. Thanks to Mark Basch, Mark Johnson, Dave, Heidi, Andre, and others for a fun day.

Jim









[This message has been edited by nsxman (edited 16 November 2001).]
 
Originally posted by nsxman:
First, ...

The engineering looks sound, in the opinion of this PE (electrical). Unlike the CT Supercharger, the BBSC does not require any change to the alternator location. Induction plumbing can either use the stock intake or K&N. The workmanship and quality of parts, including fasteners, appeared top notch.


Can the CT Cold Air Intake be used with the BBSC?

Dave.
 
Yo NSXMAN,

Nice review!

How many BB SCed cars were there? Were there any equipment failures?

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NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s
 
I believe that there were four BBSC cars and one CT SC.

One NSX engine failure (not SC related).

On the other hand, the engine of a brand new Vette apparantly was destroyed. When I inspected the oil dipstick, it was virtually dry. Makes one wonder about the manufacturer, the dealer, and the owner!
 
NSXMAN,

Does NSX engine "failure" mean blown engine, or electrical loss, or what? RSVP.




------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s
 
In spite of Mark Basch's hands-on exam, the cause of the NSX engine failure was not diagnosed. The engine was able to be re-started, however, the noise from the valve train was enough to make one cringe.

One opinion was that the pistons had struck the valves due to excessive engine RPM. It's anybody's guess until a teardown.
 
Jim --

Nice to meet you finally 'off the list'!

Pahrump was the most technical course I've been on, but was a blast (I'll have good dreams of 5A & B and the 90 degree kink - whoo hoo!)

By the way, the engine failure that day was on a car with out a supercharger installed, just for clarification.

I found the BaschBoost to supply very usable and progressive power, allowing me to concentrate on upcoming corners vs. managing power delivery. The supercharger makes a great compliment to the car as I feel very comfortable with the current suspension and brake setup. Definitely need to quiet the interior of the car, it's too noisy!

-- Chris

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SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
 
My anticipation for this awesome mod just keeps growing and growing.

So how did the BBSC perform after a few laps when the intake temp has increased significantly? Did the car start to feel slower as the ECU pulled timing? Does the BBSC fuel system compensate for higher intake temps?

rgrds,
Jeff C
 
>Induction plumbing can either use the stock
>intake or K&N.

Minor correction: the stock air box will not fit with the SC installed. Mark Basch is planning to include a custom air box (and filter) with the SC kit that mounts in the same location as the stock air box. The input to the air box will be from the existing hole in the engine compartment so that it will draw cold air from outside of the engine compartment. All of the aftermarket "cold air intake" products should still fit since the plumbing in the fender is not altered.
Bryan Zublin
1992 NSX with Basch SC

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Zublin Engineering
http://www.zublin.com
 
Jim great review, and it was nice meeting you in Pahrump. I'm looking forward to having the BBSC installed in Dec or Jan. I'm sure you'll be attending the next track event there since you're a Vegas "Local". Also thank to Chris from SOS, and Andre for the great test rides, what a rush! Those guys were tearing it up. They must put in major track time the way they drive.

David....

[This message has been edited by dvkim (edited 21 November 2001).]
 
Chris at SOS markets the "Cantrell Concepts Air Induction System," which looks interesting. I understand that it may be compatible with the BB SC, when Mark B gets finished with his design. Does anyone know what effect there would be, if any, on the performance of a BB SCed NSX, when using this more efficient forced air product.

For example, I can imagine that this induction system might make the Paxton blower more efficient at delivering air, which at the same time might require enriching the air/fuel mixture so that it wouldn't be leaned out. What about horsepower increase, etc?

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s

[This message has been edited by NSXY (edited 21 November 2001).]
 
Originally posted by NSXY:
Chris at SOS markets the "Cantrell Concepts Air Induction System," which looks interesting. I understand that it may be compatible with the BB SC, when Mark B gets finished with his design.


it might depending upon where the air filter ends up. Right now the filter is not going to be in a box (although it most likely will have a reflective heat shield between it and the motor) and the OEM air box will not fit with the SC in place.

Does anyone know what effect there would be, if any, on the performance of a BB SCed NSX, when using this more efficient forced air product.

For example, I can imagine that this induction system might make the Paxton blower more efficient at delivering air, which at the same time might require enriching the air/fuel mixture so that it wouldn't be leaned out. What about horsepower increase, etc?


Imaginative
biggrin.gif
but there are none. Do you really think that funnelling a little more air into the OPEN engine bay can "pressurize" anything?

Take out the OEM intake tube and look at it - how "restrictive" is it in real life use? Those "wiggles" in the tubing are good for restricting rain flow into the air filter, but air gets through pretty well.
JMOOC, but I have not seen the flow bench test results on the Cantrell product, nor any dyno results that suggests that it makes a measurable difference in anything other than the intake sound in an NA motor using the OEM air box - which it does change, and for the better.

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need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.
 
Originally posted by NSXGOD:

Imaginative
biggrin.gif
but there are none. Do you really think that funnelling a little more air into the OPEN engine bay can "pressurize" anything?

Take out the OEM intake tube and look at it - how "restrictive" is it in real life use? Those "wiggles" in the tubing are good for restricting rain flow into the air filter, but air gets through pretty well.
JMOOC, but I have not seen the flow bench test results on the Cantrell product, nor any dyno results that suggests that it makes a measurable difference in anything other than the intake sound in an NA motor using the OEM air box - which it does change, and for the better.



Mark --

With out being armed with the flow bench test results of either the OEM tract or Cantrell Air Induction System, I don't see how you can claim there not to be any benefit. By the seat of my pants, I believe there are benefits, and we hope to release results from flowmeter tests with the stock tract and AIS soon. We have an inline filter in testing that will directly link the AIS and intake track for the BaschBoost.

Regards,
-- Chris

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SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
 
Let's find out for sure....My car is at facility that has a flow bench and experienced techs right now. I also have a Cantrell intake and a stock intake unit at my disposal that I could have metered. No promises but I'll try to have it done by Tuesday.

[This message has been edited by Craig (edited 24 November 2001).]
 
Thanks Craig! Ideally, it would be best to the stock tract and the AIS duct to be positioned in the side vent locations for the test. The reason for this is that the stock tract is out of line with airflow (see my website) and the AIS is. Regardless, any help is appreciated!

-- Chris

------------------
SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
 
Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:

Mark --

With out being armed with the flow bench test results of either the OEM tract or Cantrell Air Induction System, I don't see how you can claim there not to be any benefit.

If you look at what I originally said, I spoke to the intake being useless for open engine bay intakes specifically and mentioned my skepticism on the rest. So are you saying that adding the Cantrell intake tube to a car with an RM style intake will do anything? I assume not as it would be impossible given the open engine bay unless it somehow lowered the air temp in there by 10-20 degrees F over what it would be otherwise. Since we know that it does not we can go on from there.

So lets agree that you are talking about the OEM airbox or CT modified airbox only that might possibly benefit from this. I think that we can all agree also that the Cantrell intake cannot possibly pressurize the OEM airbox above atmospheric pressure either. (I do remember one enthusiastic user postulating that it added 1-2 PSI at speed. Oh my, what fun! I have a box of TurboTwirler SpiralMaxes too -
biggrin.gif


We can also ask the question (assuming that you do find a significantly measurable difference in the absolute air flow level on a bench) that the difference is significant to the motor in any way - if the OEM intake flows enough air volume to supply the maximum amount that the NSX motor can process at redline (it is just a sexy air pump after all) then making the hole "freer flowing" will not make it any better - something about leading the horse to water but you can't make him drink comes to mind.

Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
By the seat of my pants, I believe there are benefits, and we hope to release results from flowmeter tests with the stock tract and AIS soon. We have an inline filter in testing that will directly link the AIS and intake track for the BaschBoost.
Regards,
-- Chris

Sounds interesting - I've found that many "seat of the pants" dynos do not stand up to the light of a dyno test or repeated/averaged timed acceleration runs. We all know that even the effect of the 8-10RWHP that you get from a quality aftermarket exhaust is hard to measure on the street. Just call me the devils advocate on this one
biggrin.gif


------------------
need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.
 
Originally posted by nsxman:
In spite of Mark Basch's hands-on exam, the cause of the NSX engine failure was not diagnosed. The engine was able to be re-started, however, the noise from the valve train was enough to make one cringe.

One opinion was that the pistons had struck the valves due to excessive engine RPM. It's anybody's guess until a teardown.



that is exactly what happened - I have pix of the valve pressed into the head sideways if anyone wants to look. (WARNING: painful to the wallet.)


------------------
need more info? please private me @

[email protected]

Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.
 
Don't worry my grenade will be on display for all to see...the pics just don't show the pain. We saw the damage tonight. We just need to get our NSX back in the game, if you have a motor for sale drop me a line. Thanks
 
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